Look, I know it’s been entirely too long since our last Profile, but sometimes it’s really, really hard to reacclimate to the grind after Fire In The Mountains. The good news, however, is that our re-entry to this little column is with a bang. North Carolina’s noise/sludge metal outfit MAKE dropped Exegesis At The End Of Time back in June through Accident Prone Records. And as awesome as their new album is? The insights from Scott Endres and Spencer Lee are just as good. So if this is one that slipped off of your radar a couple months back, now is the perfect time to dive in and catch yourself up. Hit play, give their responses a read, and then hit play again.

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How and when did you first get into playing music, or metal more specifically, and how did your band get its start? Any pushback from family/those close to you?

SE: I first started playing music (tenor sax) in third grade, and made my way to becoming first chair until 9th grade when I sold the sax in order to buy my first electric guitar, which seemed so much cooler to me at age 15. The very first song I learned was “Seek and Destroy” by Metallica, so I started in with metal immediately, haha. MAKE got its start via a mutual friend, Daniel, who knew Spencer and was in a band with him when I happened to see Daniel out of the blue in town one day and we both talked about how the three of us were all simultaneously looking to start a slow and heavy doom-ish type band. No pushback from the fam. When I was 21 I told my Dad I was dropping out of college to pursue some sort of nebulous bohemian Henry Milleresque (in my mind, at the time) life and moving to Boston (from Milwaukee). He stopped me before I could even finish and said “It’s ok, I understand, I wish I could have done the same when I was your age.” And I’d like to think with each album from each band I’ve sent home, I’m making him happy to have believed in me.

SL: I got my first guitar for my 12th birthday, but I was always obsessed with anything that could make noise from a young age. I was a “punk rock forever” kid in high school, but around when I turned 18 I started getting into metal through grindcore, crust, and sludge, and it really stuck. My family has always been very supportive of my playing music, and I give them a lot of props for tolerating my love of loud, abrasive music even though that’s not their jam at all. Daniel, who Scott mentioned, and I were playing in a very mathy sludge band together and talking about doing something slower and more deliberate, and when he introduced us all it was a very quick, organic match.

How would you describe your band and what you play to someone who is completely in the dark?

SE: Noise metal with a touch of shoegaze and a poor outlook for the future of humanity.

SL: When I’m talking to people who don’t really know metal or underground music, I tend to say “think Pink Floyd or something with an extremely bad attitude,” but mostly I just echo Scott here or talk about our influences.

Is there anything about your latest album or about your band that no one will find in any interview or review that you care to divulge?

SE: Oh you want a secret, eh? It’s funny what details you think people will latch onto or not and how it usually goes the opposite way you were thinking. I thought for SURE somebody was going to notice that all of the lyrics, literally every word, on ‘The Absurdist’ (from our album “The Golden Veil”) is lifted straight out of Beckett’s “Waiting for Godot” but it’s never happened. So I feel ok letting that one out of the bag by this point. New album though… let’s just say that the empty connecting spaces in the labyrinth on the cover are not random.

SL: If you listen closely during the very last riff on the record you might juuuuust be able to hear the Roland Juno track we used to give that section a little extra oomph. That was a fun moment of improvisation in the studio. For most of my basic guitar tracks on the record I used a baritone guitar with humbuckers, but on “The Spectacle” I used a standard-scale with P90s. Both are aluminum guitars, but the standard-scale one has an ultra-thin neck that you can bend for a really warped vibrato that was perfect for the spacier sections in the second half of the song.

Any funny stories from playing shows / tours / festivals, etc?

SE: Have you ever tried the Jump & Bake?

SL: It’s even better than shake ‘n’ bake! Way back on our first tour, within the first couple days I managed to sit in a pile of grits at a Cracker Barrel. I didn’t even realize I had done it until I stood up like a half hour later. Being a genius and a fashion maven, I had neglected to bring a second pair of jeans on the tour, so I had this horrible white streak of grits down the back of my pants leg for the entire tour. Rock and roll, baby.

What do you see as some of the great things happening in and around the metal scene (yours or just in general) and what are some of the worst things happening right now?

SE: I’d say that there even is a scene starting to grow back in the Triangle, NC is great, because Covid really did a number on everything and everybody. The worst thing is that it’s still not what it used to be a decade or two ago, where it really felt thriving and everybody was in everybody else’s corner. It feels very fragmented right now. There are some really great metal bands in the Triangle who we’ve never played with because that overlap just doesn’t seem as intentional as it once did. Also, just, jesus Christ we come back after ten years and this engagement bait people are taking part in is just embarrassing. I don’t care if you’re knowingly chasing the algorithm. It’s gross and debasing and it sucks.

SL: Yeah, it really does feel like the musical world is still trying to figure out how things work in a post-COVID world. The logistical side of this stuff is still just really tough, but we’re all finding our way, and that resilience is something I’ve always admired about underground music in general. I don’t think a capitalist world will ever allow things to get meaningfully better for artists, but I have a lot of hope in how artists find ways to make art even within a milieu that is largely hostile to what we do. We’re still seeing absolutely fantastic art being made and new artists are popping up all the time, and that’s ultimately what will keep driving metal forward: people who care enough about it to dedicate themselves to it.

Most folks have passions for a cause or causes that are close to them. What, if any, are some of the most important issues (social/political/humorous/etc.) for you / your band and how do you insert those issues into your music?

SE: I’d say for myself personally it is wrapped up in socialism without a hierarchical power structure, specifically anarchism, and fighting back against the hooks capitalism has sunk into our society via propaganda. Trying to alert folks that there are more effective ways to survive and fight back and exist under what is essentially a global fascist oligarchy than just voting for the party of controlled opposition (like engaging with your local mutual aid orgs, getting involved in your local community, meeting your neighbors, etc).

When you study history and you learn things such as Shell corp selling the exact same rockets to the axis and the allies and that even Hitler had to answer to the oligarchs…it seems a little silly to get excited about liberal (re: centrist) candidates, the status quo, and brunch. We need to focus on class war, not culture war.

SL: I also identify with anarchism, and that is something that has a strong influence on my life. Mutual aid, in particular, is a concept that I believe is extremely important, universally practicable, and the best way for us as individuals to help our communities to divest from reliance on capitalist and state entities. I spend at least one day per week repairing guitar amplifiers for virtually no profit, and it’s something I focus on as an act of mutual aid. People trusting me with their amps gives me an opportunity to learn and hone my skills, and I repay that kindness by keeping my repair prices very inexpensive (often just the cost of parts) and sharing what I know with people who are interested. That practice helps me to learn, it helps our music scene keep moving, it keeps amplifiers out of landfills, it keeps people from having to spend tons of money on new amps or corporate repair prices, and it gives me a way to contribute despite having become something of a hermit. Capitalism thrives upon using all of our personal energy for profit generation, and that makes dedicating time to mutual aid very difficult, but more of us offering our skills to our communities means that hopefully we can reduce that burden enough that even more people can begin offering their skills as well, and that would be moving us in a very positive direction.

Do you have day jobs or hobbies you want to share?

SE: Aside from my voracious appetite for reading literature and watching film, I’m a huge gamer here. Both videogames and tabletop RPGs (of which I am the GM 90% of the time). I’ve lately been getting back into retro gaming, specifically the Game Boy Color and the SNES. Two consoles that really showed how creative you could be when you’re left to draw with pixels. I think it’s just such a beautiful art form. I also do some illustration and zine creation…and when I’ve got a few bucks to toss at the wind you can find me goofing on some Lego, usually of the Star Wars variety.

SL: I work at an independent music store called Twin House Music, and spend most of my free time either with my partner, playing music, or working on amps. My partner and I like playing video games together (mostly PS5 or PC), and I play in another band with John (Crouch, MAKE’s drummer) called Vanishing Point.

What advice do you have for music critics and outlets out there? How can we all better serve the genre in the eyes of a hard-working musician?

SE: I don’t know that this is the best, but it’s the first thing that came to my mind: Never assume that a band you’re reviewing is influenced by, or even fans of, the bands you are reminded by from their music. In our case, historically, it’s almost always missed the mark.

SL: Across all our reviews, good or bad, I always appreciate the ones where I can tell that the reviewer really listened deeply and thoughtfully. A review that gives me something to think about is always hugely helpful.

Any specific long term goal(s) in mind?

SE: I’m going to continue to stay employed, playing music, and not committing suicide.

SL: Same here, really. Whatever it takes to keep making art.

When you’re not obsessing over your own material, what are some of your favorite albums to listen to currently?

SE: The new Boards of Canada hit me in just the right spot. I think it’s their best since “Geogaddi”. The Neurosis comeback record is phenomenal, of course. The two most recent Swans records I’ve been really into. Honestly most of my listening time these days is while I’m reading which means it’s a lot of minimal, ambient, electronic stuff like Fennesz. I think I’ve finally hit the age where I’ve really just stopped keeping up with new shit.

SL: I pretty much always have Swans, Khanate, The Jesus Lizard, Shellac, Hum, Unwound, Dragged into Sunlight, and Harvey Milk on heavy rotation. Also loved the new Neurosis and Boards albums, and just my luck that the New-rosis would drop right when I was in the middle of a kick with their early records. This week at work it’s been a lot of Black Flag, Dead Kennedys, Lungfish, and Yob.

What is the near future outlook for you or your band? Any specific events on the horizon that the masses should be aware of?

SE: We’re just going to keep writing, recording, playing live, and releasing music! We’re playing the Hopscotch fest in September, and then I think we’re going to take some time to hunker back down to finish writing what will be the next record.

Summarize your band in one word.

SE: Incorrigible.

SL: Uncouth.

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Many thanks to Scott and Spencer for the time!

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Exegesis At The End Of Time is out now through Accident Prone Records. For more information on MAKE, head over to their Instagram page.